The nineteenth century English convert to Catholicism, Father Frederick Faber, wrote a book called Kindness. Reading your stack, I thought of the passage below. I think of it from time to time.
It's true that one is more likely to find kindness in a twelve step group than in a church. But like you, I am a practicing Catholic, have been for 45 years, and I don't give up on going to church.
Father Faber writes:
Devout people are, as a class, the least kind of all classes. This is a scandalous thing to say ; but the scandal of the fact is so much greater than the scandal of acknowledging it, that I will brave this last for the sake of a greater good.
Religious people are an unkindly lot. Poor human nature cannot do everything; and kindness is too often left uncultivated because men do not sufficiently understand its value.
Men may be charitable, yet not kind; merciful, yet not kind; self-denying, yet not kind. If they would add a little common kindness to their uncommon graces, they would convert ten where they now only abate the prejudices of one.
Oof..."they would convert ten where they now only abate the prejudices of one." It's so good it almost stings. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for not giving up. I hope to follow those footsteps.
I agree. I have long thought that the lesbian community in particular did and does and excellent job of meeting people where they are and loving them there. Hospitality goes a long way - I think- the hospitality of presence (greeting people, chatting with the grocery clerk etc), and the hospitality of place (opening one's home).
>In my opinion, LBGT individuals are leaving for a community who can - quite frankly - often love better and do community much better. For the LGBT inclined individuals, there’s been decades of building spaces, community and support ready to catch them after our Catholic community fails (15 seconds into our first conversation). And that pesky hurdle of celibacy has also been cast aside, even better.
Indeed. I myself am not on that spectrum, but I DO know that the logical issue with lacking acceptance means that you play a role in keeping people from God, while the Devil is right there with his arms wide open.
Stay strong, brother. Remember St. Mary of Egypt (who's normal in this regard but was, put bluntly, a complete skank before turning it around and becoming a saint).
This is so good. Thank you so much for picking up your cross, and on behalf of all other 'shittier members', we're sorry for not supporting and loving folks like you!
One of the unexpected lessons of going through a civil divorce as a Catholic was finally seeing and identifying with to an extant- the cross of LGBT Catholics. Chastity is a great unifier. Of course, I also understood if ai pursued a declaration of nullity and was granted it, I would be free to marry, so I also understood that I would not be able to put myself In their shoes completely. This compassion that pushed me to look outside myself and love others better have led to fulfilling friendships. It is one of the blessings borne out of a really difficult cross.
I’m so glad you are talking about this- noticing the LGBTQ Catholic, sitting with people in their mess, and calling out the scandal that near-heretical groups are doing better ministering to those on the margins than your average devout Catholic; that the single person is looked with suspicion sometimes instead of embraced (thankfully not an issue I have dealt with but have single friends who can’t seem to find a place in the life of the parish outside liturgy); and the fear that maybe the reason we aren’t talking about chastity is because some people aren’t living or don’t believe in it.
In my thoughts I have often considered these issues but also have been left with an unknowing how to change things on an institutional level. For my part as a church music director, I like to think we provide a welcoming community for singles, married, lukewarm, fervent, etc. it is a ministry after all. I check in on the young single people if they go MIA and also make space and give flexibility for family’s hectic schedules. I also notice families on pain during funerals and try to be as welcoming as possible, holding a door open for them to return to the church they may not have been in for years.
The most beautiful part of your article was your description of encounter. Always come back to that. Stay close to Christ, friend. I do now have an annulment and do not know if I will ever marry again. I think I’d like to, but it has to be the right person at the right time. In the meantime, I cannot engage in any activity I have taught my own children is sinful and to avoid. Age and life circumstances do not change morality. So in other words, there are others out there laboring alongside you in this vineyard of difficult virtues. You are right that it can’t be white knuckle all the time. That’s the attachment to sin. Keep surrendering everything, every temptation and loneliness, every joy, every sorrow. Community is key/ you are so spot on. Unite with Christ. YOU can’t do this but Christ who lives in you can, but the road from one to the other is a journey. Keep up the good work. Keep asking question. Keep writing. Keep getting up if you fall. So much love to a brother in Christ. Hugs.
Thank you so much for reading and engaging, for sticking it out in this celibate corner of the Church with me, and for working to make that celibacy a bit more tolerable for others. With time I've become more and more convinced of the 'encounter' portion of it all you pulled out. It's only in light of this encounter that I've been able to not 'white knuckle' life, and hopefully grow in community and help some others reach that encounter and find integration as well.
One of the unexpected lessons of going through a civil divorce as a Catholic was finally seeing and identifying with to an extant- the cross of LGBT Catholics. Chastity is a great unifier. Of course, I also understood if ai pursued a declaration of nullity and was granted it, I would be free to marry, so I also understood that I would not be able to put myself In their shoes completely. This compassion that pushed me to look outside myself and love others better have led to fulfilling friendships. It is one of the blessings borne out of a really difficult cross.
I’m so glad you are talking about this- noticing the LGBTQ Catholic, sitting with people in their mess, and calling out the scandal that bear-heretical groups are doing better ministering to those on the margins than your average devout Catholic; that the single person is looked with suspicion sometimes instead of embraced (thankfully not an issue I have dealt with but have single friends who can’t seem to find a place in the life of the parish outside liturgy), and the fear that maybe the reason we aren’t talking about chastity is because some people aren’t loving or don’t believe it.
In my thoughts I have often considered these issues but also have been left with an unknowing how to change things on an institutional level. For my part as a music director, ai like to think we provide a welcoming community for singles, married, lukewarm, fervent, etc. it is a ministry after all. I check in on the young single people if they go MIA and also make space for family’s hectic schedules.
The most beautiful part of your article was your description of encounter. Stay close to Christ, friend. There are others out there laboring alongside you! Keep up the good work.
I’m so sorry for your pain. It opens my eyes some to the needs of those around me in my parish who aren’t young families, though we do tend to gravitate toward them for obvious reasons. They are going through the same troubles and issues, and same joys. They just get it in a way that even our friends who are married without kids just don’t.
I do know of a couple people though who aren’t priests who have taken vows of celibacy for reasons (as far as I know) disconnected from having any particular problem with lustful desire or same sex attraction. They seemingly just felt called to celibacy, and not out of an inability to form a romantic relationship. They live in community with people of the same sex, usually in houses organized by Opus Dei and do life together in a strong communal way, like 15 dudes in a house 3 of whom are priests.
I have no idea where you live or what your nearby opportunities are, but perhaps something like this? These guys seem to have well rounded social lives and are constantly invited to all the social gatherings where there are families with kids and it’s as if they’re no different than anyone else there.
Maybe research this some, see if something like it is in your area, and if it isnt, maybe reach out to a group who is already doing it well and see if you can help get something started.
Regardless, I appreciate your words. They’ve challenged me to be more actively compassionate to those outside my immediate social circle in the church.
Thanks for reading and for sharing your thoughts. Community is certainly critical, and intentional community is really tough to form and maintain. That specific community sounds really beautiful, wish I had something like it around me. But alas I will keep swimming upstream, try to love my neighbor a bit more every day and hopefully some more community will blossom one day! And thanks for turning your attention to those who may seem more on the “fringe” in your pews, even when I understand that takes a ton of effort with young kids and families.
"I know and love Jesus, even when His existence is more annoying than awesome"
This indeed is quite a hurdle. I want so much of Christ in my life, in reading of his goodness and steadfast love I want not but to choke myself out for wanting anything else, and yet even in knowing of the goodness of God, the longing and desire for intimacy, relationship, and being desired by another human feels all encompassing, at times it feels so hopeless and impossible to overcome. Add in a skosh of being too LGBT+ for the more religious and too religious for the LGTB+ crew, and well it all seems nigh impossible. And, well, the choice to just throw in the towel in either direction seems all too appealing. Yet another way looms in the distance, a suffering for the sake of the cross, to take our longings and deny them, to offer them to Christ, saying 'this much I love you, this I hold so dear I surrender to you, because I love you oh Lord"
I wish it were that simple, or at least that process just a smidgen easier, alas "In this life you will have troubles, but take heart, for I have overcome the world"
Thank you for reading, for sharing this wild Christian LGBT+ space with me and for your own reflections here.
You nailed it, that “other way” you mention is certainly shaped like a big old cross at times. “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me,” He says. I might find isolation in taking up my cross, but somehow Jesus is always found at the cross too. And I hope that can be enough for me. But it sure would be nice to have a Simon of Cyrene every once in a while!
much agreed! to find the Simons that exemplify what the church could be in bearing one anothers burdens and pursuing true oneness in the church that we could be known by our love for one another and how we care for the world because Christ first loved us!!
Idk man, whenever I read about stuff like this I'm struck by how unlike it all my local joint parish is. We have spinsters and divorced-annuled-remarried people on the finance councils. I'm in the middle of a divorce right now and on the pastoral council. We have tons of young families with babies crying loudly at every Mass and no one even blinks. We have people with a history of documented mental health issues deeply involved in parish life. I'm even aware of a handful of people who are trying to live holy lives in spite of same sex attractions and real, deep familial issues who are important members of our parish. Maybe the issue is these particular communities that can't figure out how to support one another through trials? Our parishes seem to have figured it out.
That’s awesome man, very happy for you and your whole community. Glad to hear that places like this exist. What do you think is the secret sauce that sets it apart?
Honestly I really think it's as simple as people in your community being kind and loving towards everyone, but in a way that doesn't deny truth. We've had two incredible pastors back to back. I think their efforts have gone a long way towards fostering this environment.
Lots to talk about here and think about. I got SA'd in the Church (my confessor in college) and in the aftermath of sorting through that, I realized that those who have experienced it and those who are struggling with SSA (or are LBGT, or whatever set of letters you'd like to use, you know what I mean) have a lot in common in that it's way, WAY easier just to ignore that we exist in day to day Catholic conversation.
I've also gotten burned trying to be community though. There was a friend I had who was on the periphery, struggling alone, didn't really have any family to speak of, and very self-sabotaging...she ended up ending our friendship when I had to draw boundaries to keep my kids safe. And I've gotten burnt out trying to run ministries too.
I like to think I try and connect with people outside my bubble, whether that's at Church or elsewhere. I think that's one of those things you can always find room to grow in. But probably the most frustrating thing is that it HAS to be person-to-person, I don't know that institutional reform is actually possible here. Institutions don't have relationships, the people in them do. Which means you're talking about a skill set and discernment rather than a list of new hard and fast rules.
Firstly, I am sorry you were ever a victim to such a horrific crime.
I’m not passionate about verbiage regarding a diversity of sexual experience. But yes, shadowy corners of the church holding the “others” (the queer, the victim of SA, the divorced, etc.) are far easier to ignore rather than engage.
I resonate with failure of community you mention, as I’m sure many do. Community takes two to tango. There is a responsibility to reach out and a parallel responsibly on the recipient to respond. A broken metaphor for our relationship with Christ, who obviously reaches out perfectly and we (I) suck at responding well, if at all. I had this thought budding as I was composing this piece, but my writing skills aren’t so deft that I was able to weave the two together. Perhaps another piece for another day.
And additionally agree people outside the church often do community much better. And that to institutionalize relationships is a silly endeavor - they are inherently experiential, not programmable.
Thanks for your experience, and thanks for somehow sticking around a Church who contains broken members who have wounded you profoundly.
I am skeptical of the existence of a "church community" just as I am of a "LGBT community."
You showed exactly why I am in doubt of a Church community: there is no support for what should be the baseline: Paul teaches that celibacy is the norm, and marriage is for those who can't manage it, and Christ teaches that unless you leave your family behind you are not worthy of the kingdom. The modern focus on family to the exclusion of celibates, especially mandated celibates, is evidence of at best a complete failure of community, and at worst creation of community counter to the intentions of Christ. In either case, following one's conscience is not supported by, but instead opposed by, community. Church community is not yours, therefore.
LGBT community, because of the long history of opposition to queerness, has a strong anti-religious streak known as Gayteism, and even the religious streak engages in interpretations that range from solid scholarship to deeply unserious slogans. And, in terms of purely intra-LGBT dynamics, the different interests and rivalries of the different groups under the umbrella constantly fragment the umbrella: the interests of a 50 year old FTM trans man and a 19 year old genderfluid lesbian are not the same, and conflict when pressed because one wants stability to be recognized after a significant change and the other wants constant change to be recognized with underlying stability—and one has the interests of invisibility because of age while the other wants visibility because of youth.
Being unsupported by two different illusory "communities" is the cross of gay Catholics.
Great point regarding queer community being fragmented as well. I was certainly falling into "the grass is greener" when in fact that grass can be pretty damn patchy as well. Community in general is very hard to do well...and if both communities suck and are fractured what the hell am I supposed to do?! Truthfully that's a question pointed more at Jesus than you. Despair failed me already, I literally wouldn't be alive today if I lived there, so that won't work. I suppose I'll cling to the cross like you say, maybe find Jesus there, and hold out for hope that my communities can improve someday.
Regarding the chaste marriage part, as a heterosexual person in a fully celibate marriage (for several years now), I’ll say it is completely possible to faithfully live out this vocation without community and support. My community condemned me when I got sick and learned I can never have children. No, I’m not impotent. I have a serious medical condition and this arrangement was mutually discerned and is valid. I am disabled, immunocompromised, and mostly homebound, so we can’t just find a new community, and my husband and I won’t give up our marriage just because others don’t approve of it. That’s so silly and is never happening.
All this to say, yes the cross of not having a community is incredibly heavy, and we do badly desire a community, but we don’t have that privilege. So we rely on each other and God’s grace to keep us going and His grace is sufficient.
I think this is a broader problem than just sexuality. People have been ruthlessly atomized, the very way that Man has naturally related to Man from time immemorial ripped apart and destroyed. Just as with so-called “homosexuality,” this is a problem the modern Episcopacy has resolutely decided not just to not address but to actively ignore, probably because even acknowledging it would be ugly. It would mean tearing down pleasant-sounding fictions and dealing with the messiness of life.
Instead, as with the age, most in the Church have gone in for rank sentimentalism, hoping that stronger sentiment more widely cultivated will plaster over any gap or crack in the foundation without really having to fix it. In the main, this means mostly acting like atomization and destruction of human sociality can be fixed by everyone wanting it to be fixed really badly. Like the problem is that people just mysteriously stopped wanting to meet other people, or say hello, or have a beer together and they just need to be reminded to want it. Or perhaps that technology, or some other vague and impossible to address affliction, is responsible, and people just need to be told to get off the phone once in awhile. Or perhaps that there simply isn’t enough effort, and that people just need to “try more.”
Anything except acknowledge that we are dealing with active persecution which, among other things, makes strenuous and continuous efforts to eliminate genuine communities. This takes many forms, obviously, but the simple fact of the matter is that a voluntary association of strangers is not a community, will not have the social life of a community, and cannot become a community through strength of sentiment. While admirable, so long as Catholics accept that a man is free to move away from those among whom he was reared or that a man from the other side of the planet can move in and be considered as no different from the locals no amount of sincerely vowing to invite someone presently attending the parish to the potluck is going to create the sort of genuine community where the simple socialization of yore could be taken for granted.
And while I can’t speak to direct experience with them, I have to admit I question the assertion that the, shall we say, rainbow crowd is more loving. This is certainly not true in the strict sense, as they not only permit but actively encourage self-destruction, which is the opposite of love. Maybe because I’m of a demographic they are so resolutely hostile to, but I would sooner expect a pleasant word or social courtesy from a Catholic than a rainbow-flag-pin-wearer myself. Perhaps people they look to draw in have a different experience.
Moreover, in an age where that sort of simple sociability is to open yourself up to all sorts of attack, I can’t help but wonder if the psychology that allegedly makes alphabet types more open to said sociability while more normal people are wary and guarded isn’t the same psychology that saw, to be topical, leftists ignore an IED in New York that more conservative types scrambled to get away from. In other words, it derives from an unhealthily retarded self-preservation instinct, something I don’t think can be expected from most Catholics.
It’s a tragedy that people will go in for self-destructive social inclusion over frigid truth, but that’s why community formation is targeted. It forces truth to be frigid where it would otherwise be warm. I just don’t think strong rhetoric or firm resolutions to be warm can fix that, anymore than resolving to work harder solves being systematically robbed.
The nineteenth century English convert to Catholicism, Father Frederick Faber, wrote a book called Kindness. Reading your stack, I thought of the passage below. I think of it from time to time.
It's true that one is more likely to find kindness in a twelve step group than in a church. But like you, I am a practicing Catholic, have been for 45 years, and I don't give up on going to church.
Father Faber writes:
Devout people are, as a class, the least kind of all classes. This is a scandalous thing to say ; but the scandal of the fact is so much greater than the scandal of acknowledging it, that I will brave this last for the sake of a greater good.
Religious people are an unkindly lot. Poor human nature cannot do everything; and kindness is too often left uncultivated because men do not sufficiently understand its value.
Men may be charitable, yet not kind; merciful, yet not kind; self-denying, yet not kind. If they would add a little common kindness to their uncommon graces, they would convert ten where they now only abate the prejudices of one.
Oof..."they would convert ten where they now only abate the prejudices of one." It's so good it almost stings. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for not giving up. I hope to follow those footsteps.
I agree. I have long thought that the lesbian community in particular did and does and excellent job of meeting people where they are and loving them there. Hospitality goes a long way - I think- the hospitality of presence (greeting people, chatting with the grocery clerk etc), and the hospitality of place (opening one's home).
>In my opinion, LBGT individuals are leaving for a community who can - quite frankly - often love better and do community much better. For the LGBT inclined individuals, there’s been decades of building spaces, community and support ready to catch them after our Catholic community fails (15 seconds into our first conversation). And that pesky hurdle of celibacy has also been cast aside, even better.
Indeed. I myself am not on that spectrum, but I DO know that the logical issue with lacking acceptance means that you play a role in keeping people from God, while the Devil is right there with his arms wide open.
Stay strong, brother. Remember St. Mary of Egypt (who's normal in this regard but was, put bluntly, a complete skank before turning it around and becoming a saint).
Well said. And I love a good skank to saint redemption arc, I’ll look her up.
Raw, prophetic, and powerful. Thanks so much for writing this, brother!
This is so good. Thank you so much for picking up your cross, and on behalf of all other 'shittier members', we're sorry for not supporting and loving folks like you!
Thanks - and I’m unfortunately often wearing a “shittier member” badge with you. We could all learn to love a bit better.
1000%!
One of the unexpected lessons of going through a civil divorce as a Catholic was finally seeing and identifying with to an extant- the cross of LGBT Catholics. Chastity is a great unifier. Of course, I also understood if ai pursued a declaration of nullity and was granted it, I would be free to marry, so I also understood that I would not be able to put myself In their shoes completely. This compassion that pushed me to look outside myself and love others better have led to fulfilling friendships. It is one of the blessings borne out of a really difficult cross.
I’m so glad you are talking about this- noticing the LGBTQ Catholic, sitting with people in their mess, and calling out the scandal that near-heretical groups are doing better ministering to those on the margins than your average devout Catholic; that the single person is looked with suspicion sometimes instead of embraced (thankfully not an issue I have dealt with but have single friends who can’t seem to find a place in the life of the parish outside liturgy); and the fear that maybe the reason we aren’t talking about chastity is because some people aren’t living or don’t believe in it.
In my thoughts I have often considered these issues but also have been left with an unknowing how to change things on an institutional level. For my part as a church music director, I like to think we provide a welcoming community for singles, married, lukewarm, fervent, etc. it is a ministry after all. I check in on the young single people if they go MIA and also make space and give flexibility for family’s hectic schedules. I also notice families on pain during funerals and try to be as welcoming as possible, holding a door open for them to return to the church they may not have been in for years.
The most beautiful part of your article was your description of encounter. Always come back to that. Stay close to Christ, friend. I do now have an annulment and do not know if I will ever marry again. I think I’d like to, but it has to be the right person at the right time. In the meantime, I cannot engage in any activity I have taught my own children is sinful and to avoid. Age and life circumstances do not change morality. So in other words, there are others out there laboring alongside you in this vineyard of difficult virtues. You are right that it can’t be white knuckle all the time. That’s the attachment to sin. Keep surrendering everything, every temptation and loneliness, every joy, every sorrow. Community is key/ you are so spot on. Unite with Christ. YOU can’t do this but Christ who lives in you can, but the road from one to the other is a journey. Keep up the good work. Keep asking question. Keep writing. Keep getting up if you fall. So much love to a brother in Christ. Hugs.
Thank you so much for reading and engaging, for sticking it out in this celibate corner of the Church with me, and for working to make that celibacy a bit more tolerable for others. With time I've become more and more convinced of the 'encounter' portion of it all you pulled out. It's only in light of this encounter that I've been able to not 'white knuckle' life, and hopefully grow in community and help some others reach that encounter and find integration as well.
1000%!
One of the unexpected lessons of going through a civil divorce as a Catholic was finally seeing and identifying with to an extant- the cross of LGBT Catholics. Chastity is a great unifier. Of course, I also understood if ai pursued a declaration of nullity and was granted it, I would be free to marry, so I also understood that I would not be able to put myself In their shoes completely. This compassion that pushed me to look outside myself and love others better have led to fulfilling friendships. It is one of the blessings borne out of a really difficult cross.
I’m so glad you are talking about this- noticing the LGBTQ Catholic, sitting with people in their mess, and calling out the scandal that bear-heretical groups are doing better ministering to those on the margins than your average devout Catholic; that the single person is looked with suspicion sometimes instead of embraced (thankfully not an issue I have dealt with but have single friends who can’t seem to find a place in the life of the parish outside liturgy), and the fear that maybe the reason we aren’t talking about chastity is because some people aren’t loving or don’t believe it.
In my thoughts I have often considered these issues but also have been left with an unknowing how to change things on an institutional level. For my part as a music director, ai like to think we provide a welcoming community for singles, married, lukewarm, fervent, etc. it is a ministry after all. I check in on the young single people if they go MIA and also make space for family’s hectic schedules.
The most beautiful part of your article was your description of encounter. Stay close to Christ, friend. There are others out there laboring alongside you! Keep up the good work.
I’m so sorry for your pain. It opens my eyes some to the needs of those around me in my parish who aren’t young families, though we do tend to gravitate toward them for obvious reasons. They are going through the same troubles and issues, and same joys. They just get it in a way that even our friends who are married without kids just don’t.
I do know of a couple people though who aren’t priests who have taken vows of celibacy for reasons (as far as I know) disconnected from having any particular problem with lustful desire or same sex attraction. They seemingly just felt called to celibacy, and not out of an inability to form a romantic relationship. They live in community with people of the same sex, usually in houses organized by Opus Dei and do life together in a strong communal way, like 15 dudes in a house 3 of whom are priests.
I have no idea where you live or what your nearby opportunities are, but perhaps something like this? These guys seem to have well rounded social lives and are constantly invited to all the social gatherings where there are families with kids and it’s as if they’re no different than anyone else there.
Maybe research this some, see if something like it is in your area, and if it isnt, maybe reach out to a group who is already doing it well and see if you can help get something started.
Regardless, I appreciate your words. They’ve challenged me to be more actively compassionate to those outside my immediate social circle in the church.
Thanks for reading and for sharing your thoughts. Community is certainly critical, and intentional community is really tough to form and maintain. That specific community sounds really beautiful, wish I had something like it around me. But alas I will keep swimming upstream, try to love my neighbor a bit more every day and hopefully some more community will blossom one day! And thanks for turning your attention to those who may seem more on the “fringe” in your pews, even when I understand that takes a ton of effort with young kids and families.
"I know and love Jesus, even when His existence is more annoying than awesome"
This indeed is quite a hurdle. I want so much of Christ in my life, in reading of his goodness and steadfast love I want not but to choke myself out for wanting anything else, and yet even in knowing of the goodness of God, the longing and desire for intimacy, relationship, and being desired by another human feels all encompassing, at times it feels so hopeless and impossible to overcome. Add in a skosh of being too LGBT+ for the more religious and too religious for the LGTB+ crew, and well it all seems nigh impossible. And, well, the choice to just throw in the towel in either direction seems all too appealing. Yet another way looms in the distance, a suffering for the sake of the cross, to take our longings and deny them, to offer them to Christ, saying 'this much I love you, this I hold so dear I surrender to you, because I love you oh Lord"
I wish it were that simple, or at least that process just a smidgen easier, alas "In this life you will have troubles, but take heart, for I have overcome the world"
Thank you for this honest reflection and lament
Thank you for reading, for sharing this wild Christian LGBT+ space with me and for your own reflections here.
You nailed it, that “other way” you mention is certainly shaped like a big old cross at times. “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me,” He says. I might find isolation in taking up my cross, but somehow Jesus is always found at the cross too. And I hope that can be enough for me. But it sure would be nice to have a Simon of Cyrene every once in a while!
much agreed! to find the Simons that exemplify what the church could be in bearing one anothers burdens and pursuing true oneness in the church that we could be known by our love for one another and how we care for the world because Christ first loved us!!
Idk man, whenever I read about stuff like this I'm struck by how unlike it all my local joint parish is. We have spinsters and divorced-annuled-remarried people on the finance councils. I'm in the middle of a divorce right now and on the pastoral council. We have tons of young families with babies crying loudly at every Mass and no one even blinks. We have people with a history of documented mental health issues deeply involved in parish life. I'm even aware of a handful of people who are trying to live holy lives in spite of same sex attractions and real, deep familial issues who are important members of our parish. Maybe the issue is these particular communities that can't figure out how to support one another through trials? Our parishes seem to have figured it out.
That’s awesome man, very happy for you and your whole community. Glad to hear that places like this exist. What do you think is the secret sauce that sets it apart?
Honestly I really think it's as simple as people in your community being kind and loving towards everyone, but in a way that doesn't deny truth. We've had two incredible pastors back to back. I think their efforts have gone a long way towards fostering this environment.
Oh man. Yeah...
Lots to talk about here and think about. I got SA'd in the Church (my confessor in college) and in the aftermath of sorting through that, I realized that those who have experienced it and those who are struggling with SSA (or are LBGT, or whatever set of letters you'd like to use, you know what I mean) have a lot in common in that it's way, WAY easier just to ignore that we exist in day to day Catholic conversation.
I've also gotten burned trying to be community though. There was a friend I had who was on the periphery, struggling alone, didn't really have any family to speak of, and very self-sabotaging...she ended up ending our friendship when I had to draw boundaries to keep my kids safe. And I've gotten burnt out trying to run ministries too.
I like to think I try and connect with people outside my bubble, whether that's at Church or elsewhere. I think that's one of those things you can always find room to grow in. But probably the most frustrating thing is that it HAS to be person-to-person, I don't know that institutional reform is actually possible here. Institutions don't have relationships, the people in them do. Which means you're talking about a skill set and discernment rather than a list of new hard and fast rules.
Firstly, I am sorry you were ever a victim to such a horrific crime.
I’m not passionate about verbiage regarding a diversity of sexual experience. But yes, shadowy corners of the church holding the “others” (the queer, the victim of SA, the divorced, etc.) are far easier to ignore rather than engage.
I resonate with failure of community you mention, as I’m sure many do. Community takes two to tango. There is a responsibility to reach out and a parallel responsibly on the recipient to respond. A broken metaphor for our relationship with Christ, who obviously reaches out perfectly and we (I) suck at responding well, if at all. I had this thought budding as I was composing this piece, but my writing skills aren’t so deft that I was able to weave the two together. Perhaps another piece for another day.
And additionally agree people outside the church often do community much better. And that to institutionalize relationships is a silly endeavor - they are inherently experiential, not programmable.
Thanks for your experience, and thanks for somehow sticking around a Church who contains broken members who have wounded you profoundly.
I am skeptical of the existence of a "church community" just as I am of a "LGBT community."
You showed exactly why I am in doubt of a Church community: there is no support for what should be the baseline: Paul teaches that celibacy is the norm, and marriage is for those who can't manage it, and Christ teaches that unless you leave your family behind you are not worthy of the kingdom. The modern focus on family to the exclusion of celibates, especially mandated celibates, is evidence of at best a complete failure of community, and at worst creation of community counter to the intentions of Christ. In either case, following one's conscience is not supported by, but instead opposed by, community. Church community is not yours, therefore.
LGBT community, because of the long history of opposition to queerness, has a strong anti-religious streak known as Gayteism, and even the religious streak engages in interpretations that range from solid scholarship to deeply unserious slogans. And, in terms of purely intra-LGBT dynamics, the different interests and rivalries of the different groups under the umbrella constantly fragment the umbrella: the interests of a 50 year old FTM trans man and a 19 year old genderfluid lesbian are not the same, and conflict when pressed because one wants stability to be recognized after a significant change and the other wants constant change to be recognized with underlying stability—and one has the interests of invisibility because of age while the other wants visibility because of youth.
Being unsupported by two different illusory "communities" is the cross of gay Catholics.
Great point regarding queer community being fragmented as well. I was certainly falling into "the grass is greener" when in fact that grass can be pretty damn patchy as well. Community in general is very hard to do well...and if both communities suck and are fractured what the hell am I supposed to do?! Truthfully that's a question pointed more at Jesus than you. Despair failed me already, I literally wouldn't be alive today if I lived there, so that won't work. I suppose I'll cling to the cross like you say, maybe find Jesus there, and hold out for hope that my communities can improve someday.
Regarding the chaste marriage part, as a heterosexual person in a fully celibate marriage (for several years now), I’ll say it is completely possible to faithfully live out this vocation without community and support. My community condemned me when I got sick and learned I can never have children. No, I’m not impotent. I have a serious medical condition and this arrangement was mutually discerned and is valid. I am disabled, immunocompromised, and mostly homebound, so we can’t just find a new community, and my husband and I won’t give up our marriage just because others don’t approve of it. That’s so silly and is never happening.
All this to say, yes the cross of not having a community is incredibly heavy, and we do badly desire a community, but we don’t have that privilege. So we rely on each other and God’s grace to keep us going and His grace is sufficient.
I think this is a broader problem than just sexuality. People have been ruthlessly atomized, the very way that Man has naturally related to Man from time immemorial ripped apart and destroyed. Just as with so-called “homosexuality,” this is a problem the modern Episcopacy has resolutely decided not just to not address but to actively ignore, probably because even acknowledging it would be ugly. It would mean tearing down pleasant-sounding fictions and dealing with the messiness of life.
Instead, as with the age, most in the Church have gone in for rank sentimentalism, hoping that stronger sentiment more widely cultivated will plaster over any gap or crack in the foundation without really having to fix it. In the main, this means mostly acting like atomization and destruction of human sociality can be fixed by everyone wanting it to be fixed really badly. Like the problem is that people just mysteriously stopped wanting to meet other people, or say hello, or have a beer together and they just need to be reminded to want it. Or perhaps that technology, or some other vague and impossible to address affliction, is responsible, and people just need to be told to get off the phone once in awhile. Or perhaps that there simply isn’t enough effort, and that people just need to “try more.”
Anything except acknowledge that we are dealing with active persecution which, among other things, makes strenuous and continuous efforts to eliminate genuine communities. This takes many forms, obviously, but the simple fact of the matter is that a voluntary association of strangers is not a community, will not have the social life of a community, and cannot become a community through strength of sentiment. While admirable, so long as Catholics accept that a man is free to move away from those among whom he was reared or that a man from the other side of the planet can move in and be considered as no different from the locals no amount of sincerely vowing to invite someone presently attending the parish to the potluck is going to create the sort of genuine community where the simple socialization of yore could be taken for granted.
And while I can’t speak to direct experience with them, I have to admit I question the assertion that the, shall we say, rainbow crowd is more loving. This is certainly not true in the strict sense, as they not only permit but actively encourage self-destruction, which is the opposite of love. Maybe because I’m of a demographic they are so resolutely hostile to, but I would sooner expect a pleasant word or social courtesy from a Catholic than a rainbow-flag-pin-wearer myself. Perhaps people they look to draw in have a different experience.
Moreover, in an age where that sort of simple sociability is to open yourself up to all sorts of attack, I can’t help but wonder if the psychology that allegedly makes alphabet types more open to said sociability while more normal people are wary and guarded isn’t the same psychology that saw, to be topical, leftists ignore an IED in New York that more conservative types scrambled to get away from. In other words, it derives from an unhealthily retarded self-preservation instinct, something I don’t think can be expected from most Catholics.
It’s a tragedy that people will go in for self-destructive social inclusion over frigid truth, but that’s why community formation is targeted. It forces truth to be frigid where it would otherwise be warm. I just don’t think strong rhetoric or firm resolutions to be warm can fix that, anymore than resolving to work harder solves being systematically robbed.